Drowned in Sound

Flying Rivers, Slipknot Swifts & Musical Frogs: Take This Podcast For A Walk In Nature

Season 5, Episode 1: What if swifts sound like Slipknot? What are flying rivers? And how do you give water a voice? This New Year special takes you backstage at EarthSonic Live, where over 3,000 people gathered at Manchester Museum to explore how music and nature sounds can help us reconnect with the planet and drive real climate action.
Recorded across a single extraordinary day in November 2025, this episode captures conversations with conservationists protecting endangered species, climate activists working with Brian Eno and Billie Eilish, and Brazilian artists who travelled from Belém where the performed at COP30.
From sampling frogs in the museum's Vivarium with Japanese composer Hinako Omori to learning about the UK's temperate rainforests (yes, really!), EarthSonic Live had it all.
In the first episode of 2026, you'll hear from RSPB conservationists Annabel Rushton and Roshni Parmar-Hill about why swifts are disappearing and what red squirrels tell us about biodiversity loss. Climate activist Tori Tsui shares how music became central to her campaigning. Hannah Overton from Warp Records explains more about the event.
And we meet four members of FLOW, female artists from three continents to reflect on their journey to Belém for COP30, where they turned droughts, floods, and flying rivers into hip-hop, spoken word, and song.
The Drowned in Sound podcast is presented in partnership with Qobuz, the pioneering high-quality music streaming and download platform for music enthusiasts and audiophiles. Each week we curate playlists on Qobuz, featuring our favourite records, artists, and the themes we explore on the show.
Visit drownedinsound.org/playlists to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at qobuz.com/dis.
Continue the Conversation: Join the discussion on the Drowned in Sound forums and share your thoughts on music, nature, and climate action.
Subscribe: Get the Drowned in Sound newsletter for weekly insights into music, culture, and building a fairer industry.
Links & Resources:
Tori Tsui - Climate activist and author of "It's Not Just You: How to Navigate Eco-Anxiety and the Climate Crisis"
EarthSonic Live - Event details and future dates
Takkuuk - Inside Bicep's Arctic Masterpiece (DiS article)
Full Tori Tsui Interview - Climate justice and music with Brian Eno & Billie Eilish
RSPB - Conservation and volunteering opportunities
Wildhoarse Water - RSPB nature reserve in the Lake District with UK temperate rainforest
In Place of War - Arts organization for social change
Manchester Museum Vivarium - Home to the frogs sampled during workshops
Sohini Alam - British-Bangladeshi composer and vocalist
Keila - Brazilian singer from Gang do Eletro, FLOW artist
Bebé Salvego - Brazilian jazz vocalist, FLOW artist
Jaloo - Brazilian gender-fluid artist and producer, FLOW artist
Hinako Omori - Japanese artist and composer
Wellcome Trust - Event partner
Arts Council England - Event partner
Ableton - Event partner and workshop provider
About the Host:
Sean Adams is the founder of Drowned in Sound, an independent music publication championing underground and independent artists since 2000. Through the DiS podcast, newsletter, and community, Sean explores how to build a fairer, more sustainable music industry while supporting the artists and fans who make it meaningful.
This episode was completely self-produced by Sean Adams, recorded on location at Manchester Museum. Thanks to Shure for providing the mics to record this special episode.

Can music still cut through in 2026? DiS meets a leading researcher

What does it actually mean to be a musician in an economy built for creators and why does it feel like the workload keeps growing while the rewards shrink?
In this episode of the Drowned in Sound Podcast, Sean Adams is joined by Hanna Kahlert from MIDiA Research, whose work sits at the intersection of music, platforms, and the wider creator economy. Drawing on recent research into artists’ working lives, they explore why musicians increasingly face the same pressures as YouTubers and streamers without a lot of the same tools, protections, or paths to sustainability.
They talk about the time sink of constant content creation, the distortion of success metrics, and how discovery has become both easier and more exhausting than ever. This includes: “lean back” listening,  “lean through” fandom whilst the conversation reframes what engagement really looks like and why likes, views, and viral moments so often fail to translate into income or longevity.
As streaming platforms push endless discovery and passive consumption, the duo ask hard questions about value, ownership, and what gets lost when music is treated as content and not an integral part of culture.
The Drowned in Sound podcast is presented in partnership with Qobuz, the pioneering high-quality music streaming and download platform for music enthusiasts and audiophiles. Each week we curate playlists on Qobuz, featuring our favourite records, artists, and the themes we explore on the show.
Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis.
Edited by: 
Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio
Chapters
00:00 - Why musicians are being reframed as “creators”
05:20 - The problem with monetisation, takedowns, and copyright
12:10 - Lean back, lean in, and what “lean through” really means
20:00 - Discovery, algorithms, and the illusion of reach
28:00 - Are superfans real - and what actually makes a fan?
36:10 - Scenes, culture, and what’s been lost in platformisation
44:30 - AI, ownership, and the coming copyright reckoning
52:30 - The “dark forest” internet and the return of small spaces
59:30 - What the next 25 years of music might look like
Continue the Conversation: 
Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode.
Subscribe:
Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance.
Links & Resources:
Cross Platform Success Using Social Platforms to Build Audience and Fandom
MIDiA Research
Hanna Kahlert – MIDiA Research
Spotify Loud & Clear Report
Music Publishers Begin Spotify Podcast Takedowns (Variety)

Spotify Boycotts, Solidarity, and Jet2 Rage: Our Top 3 Moments of 2025

What were the big music news stories of the year? In part 1 we charted the pressures building across music’s foundations and now Part 2 turns to the systems that decide who gets paid, who gets heard, and who gets left behind.
Drowned in Sound’s founder Sean Adams and music journalist Emma Wilkes count down stories #3, #2 and #1 -  from the strange feeling that there wasn’t really a song of the summer at all, to solidarity protest movements filled with eloquent musicians, and the growing wave of artists turning their backs on Spotify.
They examine how streaming payouts continue to shrink for artists, even as platforms post record profits public conversations around alternatives, and ethics (war tech?! ICE ads?! Joe Rogan?!) turned into artist boycotts. 
The biggest music stories share one consistent theme: who holds the power, and who gets to challenge it?
The Drowned in Sound podcast is presented in partnership with Qobuz, the pioneering high-quality music streaming and download platform for music enthusiasts and audiophiles. Each week we curate playlists on Qobuz, featuring our favourite records, artists, and the themes we explore on the show.
Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis.
Edited by: 
Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio
Chapters
00:00 - Introduction
02:00 - Story #3: Was there a ‘song of the summer?
01:10 - Rage, memes, and culture reflecting the moment
03:42 - Sofia Isella and the power of feminine rage
06:20 - Nova Twins, activism, and grassroots credibility
08:32 - Mannequin Pussy and what rock should stand for
09:29 - Story #2 begins: protest movements in music
11:02 - Boycotts, divestment, and corporate accountability
13:02 - Solidarity, Ireland, Palestine, and shared histories
16:12 - Culture as a battleground
29:26 - Story #1 begins: the Spotify exodus
32:13 - Streaming power, ethics, and alternatives
36:16 - Hope, resistance, and building something better
42:22 - Outro
Continue the Conversation:
Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode.
Subscribe:
Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance.
Links & Resources:
Switched On Pop - Why the Song of the Summer Is Disappearing
No Music for Genocide – Artist Boycott Campaign
NME – Paramore & Hayley Williams Join No Music for Genocide
Resident Advisor Podcast – Sama’ Abdulhadi
Together for Palestine – Yara Eid Concert
Spotify Loud & Clear Report
Music Publishers Begin Spotify Podcast Takedowns (Variety)
Spotify Payola Lawsuit Explained (Music Business Worldwide)
Cut Off the Spigot – Streaming Economics Campaign
Mozilla Foundation – The Post-Naive Internet Era

The Stories of 2025 - Part 1: Megagigs, Grassroots, and AI slop

What were the biggest stories in music this year?  No, not the releases or the hype cycles but the forces reshaping how music is made, played, toured, and valued.
In Part 1 of Drowned in Sound’s Stories of the Year, Sean Adams and Emma Wilkes count down stories #5 and #4, starting with a contradiction that defined 2025: record-breaking mega-gigs and billion-pound industry headlines on one side, and a grassroots ecosystem under existential pressure on the other.
They talk through the “mega gig” (stadium shows, park festivals, corporate-backed cultural events) and also ask what their success is hiding. Taylor Swift-level touring power continues to drive economic growth but artists at every other level are cancelling tours. What is the purpose of growth if the foundations are cracking?
From there, the conversation turns to AI. A now present-day force that is reshaping music. This is the year artificial intelligence stopped being theoretical and started demanding political, legal, and cultural responses.
Stay tuned for Part 2 of the countdown.
The Drowned in Sound podcast is presented in partnership with Qobuz, the pioneering high-quality music streaming and download platform for music enthusiasts and audiophiles. Each week we curate playlists on Qobuz, featuring our favourite records, artists, and the themes we explore on the show.
Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis.
Edited by: 
Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio
Chapters
00:00 - Introduction
01:15 - Story #5 begins: mega gigs vs grassroots
02:10 - What defines a “mega gig” now?
04:11 - £8bn industry headlines vs lived reality
06:26 - Taylor Swift, scale, and monopoly economics
07:18 - Employment figures and the invisible labour of music
08:43 - Grassroots venues as cultural homes
09:32 - Inequality, wealth concentration, and responsibility
13:22 - How the industry decides who gets tipped
16:01 - Why discovery systems feel broken
19:30 - Story #4 begins: artificial intelligence enters music
23:19 - Consent, transparency, and “human-made” music
28:30 - Power, control, and social isolation
35:30 - Outro
Continue the Conversation:
Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode.
Subscribe:
Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance.
Links & Resources:
UK Music – This Is Music Report (Industry Growth Context)
Competition & Markets Authority – Secondary Ticketing Investigations
BBC – Ticket Scams and Secondary Resale Issues
Fan-Led Review of Music – UK Parliament
Music Fans Voice – Fan Campaigning for Fair Ticketing
Independent Venue Community
Music Venue Trust
Youth Music – Rescue the Roots Campaign
AI-Generated Music Appearing on Artist Profiles 
Oneohtrix Point Never is searching for soul in the slop (Dazed)
UK Music on AI Training Data and Copyright

Albums of the Year: Emma Wilkes & Sean Adams Pick Their Standouts

It’s that time again: lists, arguments, consensus (or lack of it). So.. how do we choose an ultimate “Album of the Year’?
In this episode, Emma Wilkes joins Sean Adams to talk through their favourite albums of 2025. No this is not the definitive list, not the ‘right’ list, just the stuff that has stuck, been obsessed over, demanded repeat listens, or just briefly rearranged their internal wiring.
They also talk openly about the collapse of monoculture, the impossibility of ‘keeping up’, and why criticism still matters amongst the fractured scenes, algorithmic bubbles, and overwhelming volume of new music to choose from.
This is not so much a ranked list and more as two very online music obsessives trying to map a year that refuses to be summarised.
The Drowned in Sound podcast is presented in partnership with Qobuz, the pioneering high-quality music streaming and download platform for music enthusiasts and audiophiles. Each week we curate playlists on Qobuz, featuring our favourite records, artists, and the themes we explore on the show.
Visit https://drownedinsound.org/playlists/ to discover new music in rich Hi-Res lossless quality and start your 30-day free trial of Qobuz at https://qobuz.com/dis.
Edited by: 
Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio
Chapters
00:00 – Hayley Williams and the case for a bold AOTY
01:00 – Emma’s pick: The Callous Daoboys and joyful heaviness
04:00 – Grassroots venues, noise scenes, and Atlanta’s rise
06:30 – Introducing Emma Wilkes: rock, metal & Kerrang!
09:00 – Why heavy music needs catharsis, humour, and chaos
12:00 – Hardcore’s new era and the crossover wave
14:00 – The collapse of monoculture in 2025
16:00 – Discovery fatigue and the algorithm problem
18:30 – Model/Actriz, grief albums, and theatrical noise
22:00 – Heartworms and the art of gothic storytelling
24:00 – Ska, cowbells, and unexpected nostalgia
27:00 – Honourable mentions: Lambrini Girls, Wolf Alice, Nova Twins
30:00 – Hayley Williams’ political arc and southern identity
32:00 – Easter eggs, vocal shifts, and how fans decode albums
34:00 – Allyship, perspective, and storytelling in pop
35:00 – Production notes: Efterklang, Daniel James & sonic detail
37:00 – Why music criticism still matters
39:00 – Emma’s Top 10: heavy, emotional, ambitious
42:00 – Sean’s curveballs: Postcards, DARKSIDE & more
45:00 – So… who really made Album of the Year?
Albums mentioned:
Hayley Williams - Ego Death at a Bachelorette Party
The Callous Daoboys - I Don't Want to See You in Heaven
Backxwash - Only Dust Remains
Kathryn Joseph - We Were Made Prey
FKA twigs - Eusexua Afterglow
Ethel Cain - Perverts
Model/Actriz - Pirouette
Alan Sparhawk - With Trampled by Turtles
Heartworms - Glutton for Punishment
Die Spitz ‧ Something to Consume
Little Simz - Lotus
Lily Allen - West End Girl
The Mynabirds - It's Okay To Go Back If You Keep Moving Forward
Wolf Alice - The Clearing
Turnstile - Never Enough
Addison Rae - Addison
Sharon Van Etten - Sharon Van Etten & The Attachment Theory
Marissa Nadler - New Radiations
Nova Twins - Parasites & Butterflies
Anna von Hausswolff - Iconoclasts
Sudan Archives - The BPM
Horsegirl - Phonetics On and On
JADE - THAT'S SHOWBIZ BABY!
Dave - The Boy Who Played the Harp
Garbage - Let All That We Imagine Be the Light
Scowl - Are We All Angels
Postcards - Ripe
DARKSIDE - Nothing
Jools - Violent Delights
Witch Fever - Fevereaten
Deafheaven - Lonely People with Power
Lambrini Girls - Who Let The Dogs Out
Sprints - All That Is Over
Pinkshift - Earthkeeper
Creeper - Sanguivore II: Mistress of Death
Melody’s Echo Chamber - Unclouded 
HEALTH - CONFLICT DLC
Continue the Conversation:
Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode.
Subscribe:Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance.

How Music Fans Can Save The Planet - Tori Tsui on Billie Eilish, Brian Eno & Fossil Fuel Treaty

82% of music fans want to stop climate breakdown but only 3% know what to do. Climate activist Tori Tsui reveals how Billie Eilish, Brian Eno, and Massive Attack are building the infrastructure to turn that care into action.
Recorded backstage at EarthSonic Live in Manchester, this conversation bridges the gap between wanting to help the planet and knowing how.
Drowned in Sound founder Sean Adams meets Tori Tsui, the climate justice activist, author of "It's Not Just You," and senior advisor to the Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation Treaty. Tori works with Brian Eno's EarthPercent and Billie Eilish's Overheated climate conferences.
IN THIS EPISODE:• How Tori got Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham to sign the Fossil Fuel Treaty before introducing Massive Attack• What streaming platforms are hiding about their energy use• Why 94% of some carbon credits are phantom scams with no climate benefit• How green touring saves artists money• The Chris Martin/Coldplay connection• What music fans can actually do (beyond guilt)
Organizations mentioned include:• Fossil Fuel Treaty: https://fossilfueltreaty.org • EarthPercent (Brian Eno): https://earthpercent.org • Billie's Overheated: https://www.imoverheated.com • Green touring: https://www.soliphilia.co.uk/
Read Tori's book "It's Not Just You" https://www.toritsui.com/ Follow Tori: Instagram @tori_tsui_
ABOUT DROWNED IN SOUND:Independent music journalism exploring how music catalyzes systemic change.Newsletter: https://drownedinsound.org 
Recorded at EarthSonic Live, Manchester Museum, November 2024.
#ClimateChange #MusicIndustry #BillieEilish #BrianEno #MassiveAttack #ClimateActivism #Podcast

UK Caps Ticket Resale at Face Value: What Took So Long?

The UK Government have announced a landmark decision: ticket resale above face value is to be made illegal, backed by strict limits on service fees and new enforcement powers. After decades of music fans being fleeced by industrial-scale touting, could this be the turning point?
In this special episode, the FanFair Alliance’s Adam Webb (a central figure in the long-running campaign against exploitative secondary ticketing) joins Sean Adams to unpack the announcement, its implications, and what it means for fans, artists, venues, and the future of the live industry.
Webb lays out how the crisis unfolded, with resale platforms enabling huge mark-ups that now cost fans an estimated £112 million a year. They trace the steady pressure that’s been building for years: Trading Standards investigations, CMA interventions, tabloid exposés, Ed Sheeran’s court cases, and sustained evidence-gathering by managers, artists, unions, and campaigners.
Together, Adam and Sean explore the possibilities opened up by this week’s announcement and ask the simple question: what happens when fairness is restored? And will these reforms be delivered quickly enough to stop another cycle of exploitation?
Edited by: 
Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio
Chapters:
00:00 – The scale of the problem: how industrialised touting took hold05:10 – Viagogo, StubHub, and the ecosystem that lets abuse thrive10:45 – The £112 million question: super-touts, bots, and business models16:20 – Ed Sheeran, prosecutions, and the moment artists pushed back22:40 – Why enforcement has failed — and what must change29:15 – Politics, lobbying, and the slow road to reform36:00 – Fans, consent, and the ethics of the live economy41:30 – What a fair ticketing future could look like
Continue the Conversation:
Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode.
Subscribe:Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance.
Links & Resources
Fan-Led Review of Music: Parliamentary Inquiry into Ticketing Reformhttps://committees.parliament.uk/work/9161/fanled-review-of-music/
Music Fans Voice: Campaigning for Fair Ticketing and Fan Rightshttps://musicfansvoice.uk/
Which? – Stop Fleecing Fans: Ending Rip-Off Ticket Resalehttps://www.which.co.uk/campaigns/stop-fleecing-fans
Robert Smith: 7,000 Cure Tickets Cancelled on Secondary Siteshttps://accessaa.co.uk/robert-smith-says-7000-the-cure-tickets-have-been-cancelled-on-secondary-resale-websites/
FanFair Alliance: Guide to Buying Tickets Safelyhttps://fanfairalliance.org/resources/
CMA Investigation: Enforcement Action on Secondary Ticketinghttps://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/secondary-ticketing
STAR: The UK’s Ticketing Standards and Consumer Protection Bodyhttps://www.star.org.uk/
Ed Sheeran’s Legal Battle Against Ticket Touts (BBC)https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-47620979
Your Consumer Protection Rights (Gov.uk)https://www.gov.uk/consumer-protection-rights
Adam Webb – Updates and Advocacy on Ticketing Reformhttps://twitter.com/webboideas

What crisis?! UK Music’s CEO on our £8 billion industry

How can the UK music industry be both in crisis and booming? In 2024, the sector was worth a record £8 billion to the UK economy but at the same time, grassroots venues are closing, artists are struggling to tour, and AI threatens to steal musicians’ work for the profit of broligarchs.
In this week’s episode, Sean Adams speaks with Tom Kiehl, CEO of UK Music, about the findings in the organisation’s brand new annual report This Is Music 2025. Together they unpack the contradictions of a sector growing on paper but straining at its foundations from slowing post-pandemic growth and the fight for fair AI regulation, to the obstacles making it harder for new artists breaking through.
With reflections on Brexit’s lasting damage, AI’s issues with consent, and a new £1 grassroots levy, it’s a revealing look at an industry at a crossroads.
Edited by: 
Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio
Chapters 00:00 – The £8 Billion Paradox: Growth vs Crisis 03:30 – Who UK Music Represents and What It Does 07:30 – File-Sharing to AI: The Evolution of Rights Battles 13:30 – “Pro-Innovation” or Anti-Artist? AI and Copyright in 2025 18:30 – Levies, Inequality, and the Grassroots Squeeze 24:30 – Breaking Artists in a Post-Pandemic Landscape 29:30 – Rehearsal Spaces, Mentorship, and Missing Infrastructure 35:30 – Why Britain Needs a Music Export Office 41:30 – Ticketing Chaos, Regulation, and the Fan Experience 47:30 – What Fans Can Do: From Campaigns to Collective Power 52:30 – The Future of British Music: Soft Power and Survival
Continue the Conversation:
Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode.
Subscribe:
Get weekly essays, interviews, and insights from the Drowned in Sound newsletter - exploring music, culture, and resistance.
Links & Resources:
Read UK Music’s This Is Music 2025 Report
UK Music Official Website
UK Music on Instagram
Drowned in Sound Newsletter

Was Indie Sleaze Even Real? Maxïmo Park’s ‘A Certain Trigger’ at 20

How “sleazy” was Indie Sleaze, really - and was it ever a scene that Paul Smith of Maxïmo Park recognised himself in?
At a time when the air was thick with lager and leather jackets, Smith was more inspired by art-school notebooks, Robert Wyatt, and the idea that pop could be poetry.
In this conversation, the Maxïmo Park frontman joins Sean Adams who also lived through the era being retrospectively called “indie sleaze”, was at those early Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Franz Ferdinand, Bloc Party and Libertines shows, released records by Metric and Kaiser Chiefs, etc. 
In this conversation they revisit the making of Maxïmo Park’s Mercury-nominated debut and reflect on what it meant to be outsiders during Britain’s mid-2000s indie boom. Recorded for the album’s twentieth anniversary, the pair unpack the contradictions of that moment - art rock vs lad rock and sincerity vs posturing whilst tracing how those tensions still shape British guitar music today.
From signing to Warp Records and headlining the NME Awards Tour alongside Arctic Monkeys, Mystery Jets and We Are Scientists, to the band’s art-school roots, working-class perspectives, and enduring faith in pop’s emotional truth, this is a deeply human glance back at the legacy of one of the era’s most literate frontmen.
Edited by: 
Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio
Chapters
00:00 – Indie Sleaze, revisionism, and the myth of 200501:46 – Forming an art-school band and the noise scene that shaped them08:30 – From experimental roots to pop hooks: defining the Maxïmo Park DNA14:30 – Signing to Warp Records and finding a home for outsiders20:30 – The whirlwind year: Top of the Pops, the NME Tour, and the cost of success24:30 – Art rock, class, and being mislabeled “sleazy”31:30 – The politics of pop and the poetry of the everyday42:30 – Romance, resistance, and the belief that pop can still mean something
Continue the Conversation:
Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode.
Subscribe:
Sign up to the Drowned in Sound newsletter for weekly insights on music, culture, and resistance.
Links & Resources
Maxïmo Park Official Website
‘The Rise and Fall of Indie Sleaze’ - BBC Podcast
20th Anniversary Edition of A Certain Trigger
Paul Smith & Rachel Unthank Collaborative Album

Putting the Fans First

Live music is nothing without the fans. Generating £5.2 billion to the UK economy PA, employing over 210,000 people and building the careers of those who contribute over £4bn to the export of live music, there is no doubting the UKs reputation as the international home of live music and the birthplace of the festival industry. Every pound of this economic success comes from a fans pocket and the House of Commons Culture Media and Sport committee have decided it’s finally time to put them in the centre of decision making, with a fan led review of Live and Electronic Music. This review aims to champion the areas that work, safeguard the areas under threat and ensure that the health and growth of live music is fair and accessible to all.
Recorded live at Sŵn Festival in Cardiff, Sean Adams introduces a special panel arranged as part of the Culture, Media and Sport Committee’s Fan-Led Review into Live Music and Electronic Music - a landmark inquiry bringing music lovers together to discuss ideas to protect the live music industry and ensure it works in the best interests of music fans across the country. 
The discussion draws fascinating parallels between football and music, two cultures built on passion, loyalty, and community, yet often structured around systems that treat fans as consumers, not stakeholders.
Panellists
Chair – Sam Duckworth 
With a recording artist career as Get Cape. Wear Cape. Fly spanning 20 years, Sam has most recently been working with Music Venue Trust to advocate for greater fan input into Music industry decision making, co-founding the Music Fans Voice survey.
Lord Kevin Brennan
Lord Brennan is Chair of the Fan-Led Review of Live Music, on behalf of the Culture Media and Sport Committee. The Review is bringing music lovers together to discuss ideas to protect the live and electronic music industry and ensure it works in the best interests of music fans across the country. The aim is to produce a report to the Government setting out the perspectives of fans based on survey responses, stakeholder meetings and public engagement events. Lord Brennan has held positions as a Government Minister, former Chair of the APPG on Music and was a member of the Culture, Media and Sport Committee, which produced reports on ‘The future of music festivals’ and ‘The economics of music streaming’. He is also a performing musician.
Dr Lucy Bennett – Lecturer at Cardiff University’s School of Journalism, Media and Culture
Lucy is a leading academic voice on music fandom and popular music culture. She co-founded the Fan Studies Network, has consulted for YouTube, and delivered analysis for the Recording Academy/Grammys. Widely published, she also provides expert commentary for the BBC, The Guardian and The Washington Post. Her teaching spans Media Fandom and Popular Music, Media & Culture, and she recently worked on the Music Fans’ Voice Survey, amplifying live music audiences.
Cathy Long – CEO of Aposto
Having worked with 64 football clubs at the Premier League (spearheading safety and fan experience) , The FSA and co-author of the Accessible Stadia Guide, Cathy is one of English Football’s leading fan experts and a passionate and experienced advocate for Equality and Safety within the game.
Julian Jenkins 
Julian Jenkins is a seasoned sports executive and entrepreneur with over 25 years of experience in the  global sports industry. He has held senior leadership roles across football, licensing, and commercial development, helping to grow fan engagement, brand value, and international partnerships. Julian now lead multiple ventures spanning professional women’s football, AI-driven sports analytics, and creative IP development, blending his passion for sport, community, and innovation. His work focuses on building sustainable models that connect clubs, fans, and brands in more meaningful ways.
Edited by: 
Josh Craggs at Dubble Audio
Continue the Conversation:
Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode.
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Further Reading
Fill in the fan-led review of Live & Electronic Music survey 
Music Fan’s Voice Survey
The Fan Led Review of Live Music – UK Parliament CMS Committee 
Football Supporters’ Association