Drowned in Sound

Has music become a sub-genre of internet culture?

NBC News' tech and culture reporter Kat Tenbarge has her finger firmly on the pulse of internet culture and the influencer economy. She honed her expertise at Insider through investigative forays into the complexities of digital fame. Her coverage is much more than product launches and squillion dollar deals, and touches upon MeToo, fandoms, exploring how internet mobs chill free speech, and so much more.
In this episode, we explore what the music press can learn from technology journalism.
Related links
Read Kat's reporting on NBC here.
Q&A about how Kat reported on the David Dobrik allegations for Insider
Kat's piece about Angelina Jolie and Amber Heard
Find Kat and her tweets about Evan Rachel Wood and others cases against Marilyn Manson here
Reporting: 'Free Britney' organizers and influencers took over a bar, threw a drag brunch, and blasted Britney Spears in a weekend devoted to the pop star
Follow Kat on Threads here
Reporting: How Tory Lanez trial bloggers are shaping the conversation around Megan Thee Stallion
Also mentioned on this podcast was the defunding Check My Ads and Stop Funding Hate
Podcast recommendation: Offline by Crooked Media
Episode Highlights:
"The Influencer Economy": Sean and Kat unravel the fabric of online influence, pondering its implications on cultural consumption and the MeToo movement's resonance within this sphere.
"Music and Memes": They delve into the curious interplay of internet culture and the music industry, where virality can be both a career catalyst and a capricious whirlwind.
"Ethics in the Age of Exposure": The conversation takes a contemplative turn, probing the moral compass guiding journalists amidst the relentless glare of the digital age.
"The Future of Influence": Kat shares her prognostications on the influencer culture's trajectory, contemplating its impact on the internet's burgeoning denizens.
This podcast was produced, researched, and hosted by Sean Adams (@seaninsound), the founder of Drowned in Sound website (est. 2000). For more deep dives into cultural currents and explorations of the musical zeitgeist, tune in and subscribe to DiS' Substack.
Quotes from this episode:
“I’m telling the story of our downfall as it's happening” on reporting on the downfall of the media
“Honestly, one of the most, like, mind bending things to watch someone like say to the public what they do and then have those people turn around and be like, he could never do this.” On Marilyn Manson
“I think that reporting that takes a point of view is actually going to be what is successful”
“This is a period that's going to redefine the next few centuries.
"The way that technology has evolved in the past 15 years. is going to change the rest of history. It already has”
“I worked at News websites that were dominated by the clicks and the traffic. And I recognized that in order to get people to click on something, there had to be conflict. This is how all storytelling, whether it's fiction or non fiction, works. You have to have conflict. There has to be a narrative. Um, if you're telling a story about a new product being launched, no one's going to click on that unless There's some element of this product launched and it's offensive “

Shouldn’t all music journalism be intersectional?

From revolutions in Iran to the pleasures of Lana Del Rey journalist Emma Garland has written for Vice, Huck, The Quietus, The Face, Crack, Dazed, Sunday Times, Rolling Stone and many more great publications.
Emma's interviewed everyone from Emily Ratajkowski to Lingua Ignota, capturing their essence in a style of writing inspired by the journalists from a more literary tradition like Joan Didion and Hunter S Thompson, so who better to talk to about music writing that's intersectional, encompassing far more of life and what it means to be human than 50 word reviews of the latest major label debut.
The conversation begins about the differences between journalism, culture writing and music criticism, before spiralling in a range of directions from psychoanalysing the cast of Love Island to the way the culture war means interviewees are now a lot more guarded because they're speaking far beyond the readers and their fans.
Emma Garland shares insights into her creative process, using humour to tackle weighty topics and how she spotlights underrated artists and big ideas, often at the same time.
We discuss concerns over limited career pathways for emerging writers and calls for more sustainable funding models for music publications (if there are any rich benefactors out there, please get in touch).
Additional topics include:
The changing appetite for music journalism in the digital age
Challenges pitching profiles versus reported features
Activism in music media
Hopes for more focus on grassroots artists
What needs to change leading up to future UK and US elections
Guest Bio:
Emma Garland is a writer, editor, and journalist with a knack for capturing the zeitgeist of contemporary music and culture. With a career spanning over a decade, Emma has become a voice for countercultural narratives and a champion for the kind of editorial that combines fun with serious critique. Her upcoming book, "Tell All Your Friends," promises to be a seminal work in understanding the cultural history of mainstream emo from 2000-2013 (more info).
Read Emma Garland's article on women's role in music's political revolution, ⁠here⁠.
Read the Vice and Gal-Dem MeToo coverage, here.
For a monthly dose of cultural insights, subscribe to Emma Garland's newsletter, ⁠here⁠.
Visit: ⁠⁠Emma Garland's Website⁠
About The Host:
This podcast was produced, lightly edited, researched and hosted by Sean Adams (@seaninsound) who founded the Drowned in Sound website.
Want to keep up to date? Sign up for DiS' Substack here.
A Few Publications Mentioned in This Episode:
⁠Vice⁠
⁠Gal-Dem⁠
⁠Huck⁠
⁠Rolling Stone⁠
⁠NME⁠
⁠Rock Sound⁠
⁠Creem Magazine⁠
Shoutouts in this episode include investigative journalist Sirin Kale, Craig Jenkins (writer at Vulture), and Zing Tsjeng (editor in chief at Vice).

Lessons from two decades of crafting DIY Magazine

What's it really like to edit a music website?
DIY Magazine co-founder Emma Swann joins DiS founder Sean Adams on season two of the Drowned in Sound podcast about the future of music journalism.
We journey from the early days of the website to its current print & online format with a discussion that contrasts and compares DiS & DIY's stories, the thrills, the challenges, building a trusted voice, how brilliant the new Bully album is, some White Stripes fandom, a fair few mentions of Wolf Alice, red carpets, and much more.
We explore DIY's origin story, the value of human curation versus algorithms, and whether print magazines could make a comeback. Emma shares her unique perspective from the front lines of music media.
"Music journalism isn't just about reviews; it's about making connections, about showing the humanity behind every note."
"Print magazines have their own magic; they offer a pause, a moment of engagement you won't find online."
Learn more about Emma's work at DIY Magazine and follow on Twitter.
Emma is a creative force, dabbling in photography, writing, podcasting, and web design. See Emma's photography website here.
Check out the new Bully album they raved about.

Why music needs to talk about the climate crisis

Journalist, podcaster and climate communicator Greg Cochrane shares how interviewing ANOHNI changed his life, what it was like editing NME’s website, the joy of being involved in Loud & Quiet magazine plus a little bit about writing for The Guardian, interviewing Lady Gaga for the BBC, and plenty more.
The focus of our conversation is around the importance of understanding the intersection between the climate emergency and culture. “We need more stories about what’s happening” said Greg, in a really moving section of the podcast involving his hopes for the future of journalism. Toward the end, we also touch upon the economics of media and the creative economy as a self-sustaining ecosystem, including a shout out to Novara Media’s subscription model where people are encouraged to donate an hour of their salary.
Related Links
Read Greg’s life-changing interview with ANOHNI
https://www.loudandquiet.com/interview/anohni-hoping-for-a-miracle-cover-feature-interview/ 
Greg’s coverage of Billie Eilish’s recent “solutions focussed” Overheated event can be found here
https://www.nme.com/news/music/overheated-billie-eilish-mother-maggie-baird-interview-london-climate-event-3491598 
Rebecca Solinit on hope in an age of climate boomers is here
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/26/we-cant-afford-to-be-climate-doomers 
Subscribe to the Sounds like a Plan music & climate podcast that Greg co-hosts with Fay Milton (from Savages, co-founder of Music Declares Emergency and new music project Goddess) 
https://linktr.ee/soundslikeaplanpodcast 
Learn more about Greg’s work with Heard - the communications charity who support individuals and organisations to tell better stories on climate. https://heard.org.uk/articles/climate-stories-that-work-turning-awareness-into-action/ 
Listen to Loud & Quiet’s podcast and subscribe to the magazine
https://www.loudandquiet.com/podcasts/ 
Learn more about the Reuters Institute’s Oxford Climate Journalism Network
https://reutersinstitute.politics.ox.ac.uk/oxford-climate-journalism-network 

How will the music coverage of the future be funded?

Kickstarter's co-founder Yancey Strickler shares lessons from Fugazi's label and Beastie Boys' Grand Royal magazine and discusses the forward-thinking ethos of The Royal Society, a prestigious fellowship of the world's most eminent scientists.
Yancey is a big thinker, a music lover, writer and a 'zine publisher. He wrote about music for Pitchfork, Village Voice, eMusic (with many of the current Bandcamp Editorial team) and more, before becoming a notable figure in creative project funding at Kickstarter and now Metalabel. He shares a wealth of insights on the intersection of music journalism and the quest for authentic creative expression in the digital age.
Discover more about Yancey's work on ystrickler.com or follow him on Twitter @ystrickler.
Learn more about The Royal Society
Read Yancey's viral essay on The Dark Forest Theory
Discover Meta Label, an endeavour aimed at building infrastructure for the creative economy and making collective projects easier.
Read about Grand Royal's fleeting yet impactful existence (The Atlantic).
Some Yancey Strickler quotes from this episode:
"To use the most obvious example, but you know, what if Taylor Swift had a magazine, right? Like, what if? What if Taylor Swift wanted to create a space to platform things that she celebrated, the things that she cared about, things she thought her fans wanted."
"Frank Ocean has been on that, you know, I think a lot of people in the hip-hop space have done a lot of creating wider platforms for themselves through fashion. Through other lines of cultural output that I think have proven to be extremely meaningful."
"...what is music journalism? I'm just gonna say it's ethnography and I'll go to your cartography comment. To me it's explaining lineages... What are the connections? What are the origins? What is the broader sweep in which this work appears? ...like, take me inside a world I wouldn't know otherwise. Help me appreciate that world the way people inside do. And I would say any, any, any piece, anybody that can do that I'm interested and that I think is a, true service and not that music journalism needs to be a service, but if I think it, how do you elevate above sharing an opinion, which is something that anyone can do. And so that has been rendered... Mapping the context, making that context, something that people can appreciate, that I think is maybe the highest form it can attain."

Is music journalism’s future in campaigning?

The Big Issue's Culture Editor Laura Kelly on their campaigning work, like Venue Watch to help save grassroots music venues across the UK.
As Laura says, "Across the UK, there was more than two venues closing every single week." Through Venue Watch, The Big Issue is raising awareness of the challenges facing venues and driving action by "telling the story of a venue" each week.
As part of Drowned in Sound's new season of podcasts about where music journalism is headed, we explore how sharing these stories and putting "values to the fore" allows The Big Issue's activist journalism to kickstart national conversations and create change.
We asked Laura how music journalism can go beyond entertainment to activism, and she responds "I think music journalism is about building that bridge between the art and the artist and the world around."
Laura offers an insightful look into The Big Issue's unique social mission and using journalism as "a force for good." We also shoutout James O'Brien, The Skinny, Music Venue Trust, Beyond the Music Festival, Duran Duran, Nick Cave, and Smash Hits.
Sign up to Venue Watch here:
https://www.bigissue.com/venuewatch
Read Laura's writing:
https://www.bigissue.com/author/laura-kelly/
Follow Laura on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/laurakaykelly
In this episode we mentioned that 16% of people working in the creative industries are working class, you can find the data behind that study here.
The Big Issue is a British magazine that provides a platform for homeless and vulnerably housed individuals to earn a legitimate income by selling the publication on the streets. It features a mix of social and cultural content, and its mission is to empower disadvantaged people through employment while raising awareness about homelessness and poverty-related issues.

Introduction to S2: The Editor’s Letter / Voice Note

Where is music journalism headed? Sean Adams (@seaninsound) introduces season* two of the Drowned in Sound podcast in the style of an editor's letter meets a meandering, unscripted voice memo.
TL;DR? To mark 23 years of Drowned in Sound, I decided to embark on a series of interviews with TikTokkers, rock writers, tech reporters and more to try to figure out whether things could be headed.
* = series?!

DiS008: Live Music And Mental Health

Everyone from Radiohead to Sugababes to industry insiders are raving about a new book by therapist and live music expert Tamsin Embleton. It's an extraordinary body of work entitled Touring and Mental Health: The Music Industry Manual, which includes contributions from a series of mental health experts providing insights and advice covering everything from breath-work to nutrition, and resilience to rest.
The book contains interviews with people who live and work on the road, alongside musicians including Pixies, Pharoahe Monch, Nile Rodgers, Radiohead, Four Tet, Lauren from Chvrches, Will Young, Justin Hawkins from The Darkness, and many more.
In this conversation with the author you'll learn more about the realities of the road, how touring with Nick Cave & Anna Calvi fed into the initial stages of this book, and why Live Nation has bought 3000 copies of it to put in dressing rooms. We discussed some of the topics in the book such as dressing room environments, dealing with the media and some simple changes the industry can make.
This is what Nile Rodgers had to say about the book: “The life of a musical artist can be a magnificent thing when you’re on stage experiencing the enthusiasm and appreciation for your work and seeing first-hand the incredible impact it can have…. There are however another 22 and a half hours in the day when you are not performing. Being away from home and the watchful eye of your loved ones can be incredibly hard work mentally as you go around the world at a pace dictated by the tour. Having what is effectively a mental health wellness manual to keep yourself in check is a wonderful initiative.”
Learn much more about the book over here touringmanual.com and you'll find @TamsinEmbleton on Twitter here.
Host: Sean Adams (@seaninsound)

DiS007: AI, AI, AI! UK Government’s War on Copyrighted Music?! Beatles AI song! - Dr Hayleigh Bosher explains it all

Our series of conversations about Artificial Intelligence and music continues with a look at the ethics and legal implications of these new forms of technology that inhales creativity and spits out creativity using everything that has been fed into it. And not everything has gone in with permission, let alone consent.
At the spring 2023 budget, the UK government announced that they would be allowing AI firms to more easily access copyrighted material.... this seemed somewhat alarming to us as people who run a record label, manage musicians and care about the creative industries. Should be be worried?! We asked Dr Hayleigh Bosher, a leading expert on intellectual property to help us understand the law and the bigger philosophical issues with Artificial Intelligence technology using existing music to create new music.
Dr Hayleigh Bosher (@BosherHayleigh) is the author of Copyright in the Music Industry, is a senior lecturer in Intellectual Property Law at Brunel University, and hosts the brilliant Who's Song Is It Anyway? podcast.
Related Links
Here's the 'Daddy's Car' Beatles AI track
Listen to Who's Song Is it Anyway wherever you get your podcasts
Hear more from Jeremy Hunt about the AI Sandbox
Check out previous AI episodes with Endel and ChatGPT Prompt Generator David Boyle

DiS006: Women’s Equality in Music & Glastonbury’s pipeline with Vick Bain from The F List / ISM

In case it wasn't obvious, this a music podcast that hasn't had enough of experts and to mark International Women's Day 2023 we spoke to Vick Bain the founder of The F-List and President of ISM (the independent society of musicians), to her PhD research into inequality in the music industry.
This episodes covers everything from her research into the Ivors songwriting awards having a pitiful amount of women winners to setting up the F List database of female+ musicians.
In recent days, Vick Bain has appeared on the BBC's flagship programmes Woman's Hour and Newsnight, as well as spoken to The Guardian about what Glastonbury's Emily Eavis called a "pipeline problem" in trying to secure festival headliners that aren't male.
This is the first in a series of conversations about inequality and the future of the music industry.
If you've been impacted by harassment within the music industry, visit WeAreMusic for a selection of links.
For more about Drowned in Sound, join our Substack newsletter and follow our founder and podcast host @seaninsound.