Drowned in Sound

Was Indie Sleaze Even Real? Maxïmo Park’s ‘A Certain Trigger’ at 20

How “sleazy” was Indie Sleaze, really - and was it ever a scene that Paul Smith of Maxïmo Park recognised himself in?
At a time when the air was thick with lager and leather jackets, Smith was more inspired by art-school notebooks, Robert Wyatt, and the idea that pop could be poetry.
In this conversation, the Maxïmo Park frontman joins Sean Adams who also lived through the era being retrospectively called “indie sleaze”, was at those early Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Franz Ferdinand, Bloc Party and Libertines shows, released records by Metric and Kaiser Chiefs, etc. 
In this conversation they revisit the making of Maxïmo Park’s Mercury-nominated debut and reflect on what it meant to be outsiders during Britain’s mid-2000s indie boom. Recorded for the album’s twentieth anniversary, the pair unpack the contradictions of that moment - art rock vs lad rock and sincerity vs posturing whilst tracing how those tensions still shape British guitar music today.
From signing to Warp Records and headlining the NME Awards Tour alongside Arctic Monkeys, Mystery Jets and We Are Scientists, to the band’s art-school roots, working-class perspectives, and enduring faith in pop’s emotional truth, this is a deeply human glance back at the legacy of one of the era’s most literate frontmen.
Chapters
00:00 – Indie Sleaze, revisionism, and the myth of 200501:46 – Forming an art-school band and the noise scene that shaped them08:30 – From experimental roots to pop hooks: defining the Maxïmo Park DNA14:30 – Signing to Warp Records and finding a home for outsiders20:30 – The whirlwind year: Top of the Pops, the NME Tour, and the cost of success24:30 – Art rock, class, and being mislabeled “sleazy”31:30 – The politics of pop and the poetry of the everyday42:30 – Romance, resistance, and the belief that pop can still mean something
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Links & Resources
Maxïmo Park Official Website
‘The Rise and Fall of Indie Sleaze’ - BBC Podcast
20th Anniversary Edition of A Certain Trigger
Paul Smith & Rachel Unthank Collaborative Album

Putting the Fans First

Live music is nothing without the fans. Generating £5.2 billion to the UK economy PA, employing over 210,000 people and building the careers of those who contribute over £4bn to the export of live music, there is no doubting the UKs reputation as the international home of live music and the birthplace of the festival industry. Every pound of this economic success comes from a fans pocket and the House of Commons Culture Media and Sport committee have decided it’s finally time to put them in the centre of decision making, with a fan led review of Live and Electronic Music. This review aims to champion the areas that work, safeguard the areas under threat and ensure that the health and growth of live music is fair and accessible to all.
Recorded live at Sŵn Festival in Cardiff, Sean Adams introduces a special panel arranged as part of the Culture, Media and Sport Committee’s Fan-Led Review into Live Music and Electronic Music - a landmark inquiry bringing music lovers together to discuss ideas to protect the live music industry and ensure it works in the best interests of music fans across the country. 
The discussion draws fascinating parallels between football and music, two cultures built on passion, loyalty, and community, yet often structured around systems that treat fans as consumers, not stakeholders.
Panellists
Chair – Sam Duckworth 
With a recording artist career as Get Cape. Wear Cape. Fly spanning 20 years, Sam has most recently been working with Music Venue Trust to advocate for greater fan input into Music industry decision making, co-founding the Music Fans Voice survey.
Lord Kevin Brennan
Lord Brennan is Chair of the Fan-Led Review of Live Music, on behalf of the Culture Media and Sport Committee. The Review is bringing music lovers together to discuss ideas to protect the live and electronic music industry and ensure it works in the best interests of music fans across the country. The aim is to produce a report to the Government setting out the perspectives of fans based on survey responses, stakeholder meetings and public engagement events. Lord Brennan has held positions as a Government Minister, former Chair of the APPG on Music and was a member of the Culture, Media and Sport Committee, which produced reports on ‘The future of music festivals’ and ‘The economics of music streaming’. He is also a performing musician.
Dr Lucy Bennett – Lecturer at Cardiff University’s School of Journalism, Media and Culture
Lucy is a leading academic voice on music fandom and popular music culture. She co-founded the Fan Studies Network, has consulted for YouTube, and delivered analysis for the Recording Academy/Grammys. Widely published, she also provides expert commentary for the BBC, The Guardian and The Washington Post. Her teaching spans Media Fandom and Popular Music, Media & Culture, and she recently worked on the Music Fans’ Voice Survey, amplifying live music audiences.
Cathy Long – CEO of Aposto
Having worked with 64 football clubs at the Premier League (spearheading safety and fan experience) , The FSA and co-author of the Accessible Stadia Guide, Cathy is one of English Football’s leading fan experts and a passionate and experienced advocate for Equality and Safety within the game.
Julian Jenkins 
Julian Jenkins is a seasoned sports executive and entrepreneur with over 25 years of experience in the  global sports industry. He has held senior leadership roles across football, licensing, and commercial development, helping to grow fan engagement, brand value, and international partnerships. Julian now lead multiple ventures spanning professional women’s football, AI-driven sports analytics, and creative IP development, blending his passion for sport, community, and innovation. His work focuses on building sustainable models that connect clubs, fans, and brands in more meaningful ways.
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Further Reading
Fill in the fan-led review of Live & Electronic Music survey 
Music Fan’s Voice Survey
The Fan Led Review of Live Music – UK Parliament CMS Committee 
Football Supporters’ Association 

How to Empower Music’s Next Generation - DiSpatch from the Youth Music Awards

With 41% of grassroots community music spaces at risk of closure due to financial pressures, what does the future hold for young musicians trying to break through? And what role can the wider industry and everyday fans play in keeping these vital pathways alive?
In this special DiSpatch episode of the Drowned in Sound podcast, Emma Wilkes heads to Troxy in London for Youth Music's annual awards ceremony, which celebrates some of the stars of tomorrow and the grassroots projects behind them. Youth Music is the UK’s largest music charity, providing funding for hundreds of grassroots music organisations and supporting over 100,000 children and young people every year up and down the UK. Their work has never felt so urgent.
Through conversations with industry leaders, grassroots organisers, and emerging artists, this episode explores what equal access to music looks like, the vital importance of grassroots opportunities for young people, and what music fans can actually do to help. From major label perspectives to Cambridge's rising rap talent, we hear how the music industry can and must support the next generation.
Chapters:00:00 – Introduction: Who are Youth Music?
01:50 – Charlotte Edgeworth (Sony Music) on the industry’s role in supporting grassroots music.
05:50 – Dan Tsu (Lyrix Organix) on money vs creativity and mapping pathways for young people.
09:40 – Matt Griffiths (CEO, Youth Music) on meeting young people where they're at.
14:00 – Sister Bliss (Faithless) on giving every young person the opportunity to create. 
17:50 - Dan Tsu (Lyrix Organix) on creating spaces for young people
23:50 – Sister Bliss (Faithless) on what we can do next
28:50 – What comes next? A grassroots funding crisis, and what music fans can do to help.
30:50 – JayaHadADream on Youth Music's impact on her life and career.
32:20 – Resources, Rescue the Roots, and Youth Music’s call to action.
Continue the Conversation:
Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode.
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Links & Resources:
DiS Podcast: Matt Griffiths in conversation with Sean Adams
Youth Music Official Website
Youth Music’s Rescue the Roots Campaign
Youth Music’s Industry Connect Programme
Lyrix Organix Official Website
JayaHadADream Official Website
Cover photo by Jack Oliver.

Music Industry Misconduct: Why The System Still Protects Abusers

In this episode of the Drowned in Sound podcast, Sean Adams and Emma Wilkes are joined by Sophie K and Yasmin from the podcast, ’On Wednesdays We Wear Black’. Together they unpack what accountability really looks like inside the music industry - and why it’s still lagging decades behind.
From the Marilyn Manson, Chris Brown and Brand New controversies to the long-standing normalisation of abuse in classic rock (as laid bare in The Guardian’s review of Look Away), the group explores how power, money, and silence continue to shape who gets forgiven…and who doesn’t.
Chapters: 00:00 – Introduction 03:10 – The State of Rock: Power, Money, and Silence 08:45 – Cancel Culture vs Accountability 13:00 – When Does “Sorry” Stop Counting? 18:25 – Justice Without a System 23:40 – The Media’s Role in Reckoning 30:10 – What the Look Away Documentary Reveals 37:20 – Generational Shifts and Moral Gray Areas 45:00 – Lazy Activism and Online Moralism 52:15 – Festivals, Representation, and Tokenism 58:00 – Closing Thoughts: Can the Industry Evolve?
Continue the Conversation:
Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode.
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Further Reading, Links & Mentions:
On Wednesdays We Wear Black Podcast
Look Away -  horrifying stories of abuse at the hands of male rock stars (The Guardian)
Bodies: Life and Death in Music — Ian Winwood
The Persuaders - Anand Giridharadas

An ethical guide to quitting Spotify

In part two of our Drowned in Sound podcast series on the Spotify exodus, Sean Adams sits down with Alexa Speed (founder of Cut Off The Spigot), and artist Kadhja Bonet alongside returning guest Laura Burhenn (The Mynabirds) to unpack the growing backlash against Spotify and other streaming giants.
From Spotify’s billion-dollar AI investments and Daniel Ek’s controversial war drone ventures to the ethics of billionaire ownership and music’s place in post-capitalist culture, Sean and this week’s guests dive into the details and ask what happens when artists say enough is enough.
We hear why Kadhja pulled her music from Spotify, how Alexa interrogates corporate influence behind streaming platforms, and what the alternatives are (including Bandcamp, Qobuz and more). We also imagine a future where creativity and community outweigh convenience, and where art is valued for its inherent social good, not algorithmic profitability. Far-fetched? Let’s find out.
Chapters:
00:00 – Introduction: The Spotify Exodus
03:15 – Why Artists Are Leaving Streaming Platforms
08:45 – Daniel Ek’s Investments in AI and Defence Tech
13:20 – The Ethics of Streaming: Profit vs Planet
18:05 – Billionaires, Protest, and Power
22:40 – Kadhja Bonet: Why I Pulled My Music from Spotify
27:55 – Laura Burhenn on Journalism, Accountability & Platforms
34:10 – Alternatives: Bandcamp, Qobuz, and Ethical Listening
40:00 – The Role of Joy and Dance in Resistance
46:45 – Building a Post-Capitalist Music Culture
52:30 – What Comes After Spotify?
57:00 – Closing Reflections & Future Visions
Try Qobuz (Ethical Streaming Alternative):
Artists get paid 10x more than Spotify. Human-curated playlists. High-quality audio. Start your free trial via DiS (supporting independent music journalism).
Continue the Conversation:
Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode.
Subscribe:
Sign up to the Drowned in Sound newsletter for weekly insights on music, culture, and resistance.
Links & Mentions
Cut Off The Spigot
Kadhja Bonet on Bandcamp
Kadhja Bonet on Instagram
The Mynabirds
Laura Burhenn on Instagram
Flashes (Bluesky app)
Ghost: The Social Web
The Verge on Ghost 6 and the Social Web

Drowned in Sound is 25 today: Big lessons from the past and a new era unfurls

DiS founder Sean Adams sits down with DiS’s newest staff writer, Emma Wilkes, to mark 25 years of Drowned in Sound and what the future holds for the website, newsletter, and podcast. 
They reflect on Emma’s recent interview with Jeremy Corbyn as he champions grassroots venues, and turn the tables by asking each other questions usually reserved for podcast guests. Sean finally reveals how he would spend the $450m Spotify gave Joe Rogan, as this conversation explores the intersection of music, politics, journalism, and the survival of independent culture.
Sean and Emma discuss how music can be a gateway into politics (and vice versa), the pressures facing artists, publicists, and journalists in today’s music industry, and what a fairer ecosystem could look like. They also imagine music’s future in 2050 - the hopes, fears, and possibilities of where culture might go next.
Chapters:
00:00 – Introducing Emma Wilkes & 25 years of DiS 02:00 – Jeremy Corbyn, grassroots venues & music for the many 07:00 – Why music and politics can’t be separated 14:00 – Music as a gateway into politics 15:00 – Ticketmaster, Live Nation & the fight for fairness 18:00 – What is journalism today? 24:00 – Asking questions, telling stories & accountability in music journalism 29:00 – $450m for Joe Rogan: how should money flow into culture? 33:00 – Building connections between artists and audiences 37:00 – Music media as infrastructure 39:00 – Supporting mental health and addiction in the music industry 45:00 – Stress behind the scenes: labels, PRs & campaign work 46:00 – The albums we love and buried treasures 48:00 – Music in 2050: hopes, fears & future sounds 57:00 – What’s next for DiS at 25
Continue the Conversation:
Head to the Drowned in Sound community to chat about the topics in this episode.
Subscribe:
Sign up to the Drowned in Sound newsletter for weekly insights on music, culture, and resistance.
Links:
Drowned in Sound Newsletter
Emma Wilkes on interviewing Jeremy Corbyn (DiS)
Music Venue Trust – safeguarding grassroots venues
Music Minds Matter – mental health support for musicians

Is music finally ready to confront misogyny? DiS meets CheerUpLuv

In music, abuse, harassment and discrimination is normalised whilst accountability and justice is rare, so how can change finally happen?
Sign up at http://drownedinsound.org for more on this topic and our weekly newsletter.
In this episode of the Drowned in Sound podcast:
For the past eight years, journalist and photographer Eliza Hatch has been documenting everyday harassment through her platform Cheer Up Luv. Following her recent Glamour investigation into misogyny in music, which has reached over a million people, DiS founder Sean Adams sat down to talk about the reactions to the stat that more than half of women in the industry have faced discrimination.
From government failures to arena tours by artists like Chris Brown and Marilyn Manson, this is a wide ranging conversation about the challenges and the solutions. We also hear how artists like Lambrini Girls and Nova Twins reacted to hearing that over 50% of women in music have faced discrimination.
And we talk about the role men can play in smashing the patriarchy, the rise of the far right, and what a safer, more equal music industry could look like by 2050.
Chapters:
00:00 – Misogyny and music: the scale of the problem10:30 – Everyday discrimination that builds hostile spaces 20:00 – When the government rejects reform: stalled progress and NDAs 24:00 – The role of media, libel laws, and silence in enabling abuse 26:00 – Chris Brown, Marilyn Manson, and the “separating art from artist” debate 33:00 – Why accountability is so rare in the music industry 42:00 – Smashing the patriarchy is good for men, too 52:00 – The far right, feminism, and why musicians need to speak out 57:00 – What the industry could and should look like in 2050
Continue the Conversation:
Email sean@drownedinsound.org with your thoughts or experiences
Subscribe to the DiS newsletter for weekly insights on music, culture, and resistance
Links:
Cheer Up Luv on Instagram
Sign up to the Cheer Up Luv Newsletter
Eliza Hatch’s piece for Glamour
We Are Music - resources for musicians facing harassment
On Wednesdays We Wear Black - Podcast documenting Marilyn Manson’s crimes

Is national identity in music a good thing? In conversation with Idlewild

What creates a national sound? How does Scotland run through the veins of a band like Idlewild, despite their American influences?
Roddy Woomble and Rod Jones from Scottish indie stalwarts Idlewild join us to explore their new self-titled album and dig into the complexities of musical identity. Beginning in Scotland's tight-knit music community, then feeling like outsiders in London, the band reveal how geography and culture have shaped their sound and music over three decades.
Chapters:
03:00 – Exchange of Ideas: What music as conversation means beyond technical ability
06:00 – Literary Influences: Books, writers, and the Patti Smith revelation
09:00 – Sonic Youth Revolution: How Daydream Nation changed everything about playing guitar
13:00 – Scottish Identity: Self-deprecating culture and the outsider mentality
20:00 – Not Fitting Scenes: Missing Britpop and feeling closer to American bands
26:00 – Community Culture: Regional success and Scottish musical support networks
29:00 – Working with Producers: People skills and studio education
36:00 – New Album Production: Rod as producer capturing "melodic chaos"
40:00 – Visual Identity: Photography, album art, and the 28-year bookend
43:00 – Six Year Gap: COVID, solo projects, and finding renewed energy
47:00 – Rock's Resilience: Why rock refuses to die…
Continue the Conversation:
Email sean@drownedinsound.org with your thoughts on regional music scenes
Share your own experiences of musical identity and belonging
Subscribe to DiS newsletter for weekly insights on music and culture
Links:
Idlewild Official Website
New Album: Idlewild (Official Store)
Tour Dates

Why it's time to quit Spotify

Have music artists finally had enough of the multi-billion dollar streaming platform?
Laura Burhenn makes music as The Mynabirds and has played in the Postal Service's live band. When she learned Spotify CEO Daniel Ek invested $700 million in military AI startup Helsing, she pulled her music and uploaded a protest monologue.
Her "Disarm Spotify" TikTok videos sparked millions of views and a wave of artist departures followed. Recent acts that have taken their music down include King Gizzard & The Lizard Wizard and Godspeed You! Black Emperor.
In this episode, we're not just talking about streaming rates but getting into the wider systemic issues with music being turned into bombs.
Featured voices from the movement:Novo • Violetta Zironi • Naley By Nature • Dan Mangan
Chapters:
00:00 – Musicians boycotting Spotify: the fury and the interconnected issues04:00 – When music money becomes military funding: the Daniel Ek investment09:00 – AI drones and the dystopian timeline we're already living13:00 – The snowball effect: how individual protest becomes movement18:00 – Platform alternatives: Qobuz, ethics, and where artists go next23:00 – Releasing protest music on the platform you're protesting27:00 – Artists participating in their own devaluation: the bigger picture35:00 – From DC punk to Palestine solidarity: political music evolution40:00 – Why outspoken artists stay silent about their own platforms
Continue the Conversation:
Email sean@drownedinsound.org with your platform organising experiences
Join the discussion about collective action in the creator economy
Subscribe to DiS newsletter for weekly insights on music and resistance
Try Qobuz (Ethical Streaming Alternative):Artists get paid 10x more than Spotify. Human-curated playlists. High-quality audio. Start your free trial via DiS (supporting independent music journalism).
Links:
Laura Burhenn on Instagram
The Mynabirds on Bandcamp
Laura's piece for Drowned in Sound

Protect grassroots music, save so much more. A chat with Enter Shikari’s Rou Reynolds

How do artists decide what to say when everything from grassroots music to the climate is in crisis?
Backstage at Reading Festival, Drowned in Sound’s Sean Adams and Emma Wilkes sat down with Rou Reynolds, the frontman of Enter Shikari, one of the UK's most politically engaged bands. We discuss a range of topics including the St Albans music scene and how they pioneered the grassroots music venue levy - adding £1 to arena tickets to support small venues.
With 20 years of activism and seven albums under the band’s belt, Rou’s learned that having a platform means constantly choosing which crisis at a time or polycrisis deserves the spotlight. And we chat a lot about the interconnected issues and the need for system change.
Chapters:
03:00 – How the £1 venue levy actually works in practice05:00 – Why supporting grassroots is community organizing, not charity07:00 – How St Albans scene prepared Enter Shikari for mainstream success09:00 – The neoliberal isolation crisis and music's role as antidote11:00 – Connecting Gaza, climate crisis, and music industry exploitation12:30 – Climate speech: "430 parts per million" and the season finale16:00 – The impossible choice: which crisis gets the platform tonight?22:00 – Reading Festival Gaza speech: "This is not a tragedy, it's a war crime"
"To be silent in times of atrocity is to assist in maintaining that atrocity"
Continue the Conversation:
Email sean@drownedinsound.org with your platform responsibility experiences
Join the discussion about choosing battles in poly-crisis times
Subscribe to DiS newsletter for weekly insights on building alternatives
Links:
Enter Shikari Official
Music Venue Trust
Rou chats from COP in Glasgow on the Sounds Like A Plan podcast